What is Phoebe and Holden's relationship like?
I think that Phoebe and Holden have a pretty good relationship. Holden chooses to confide in Phoebe a lot and he thinks about her a lot because he cares for her. We know that he truly cares for her because he spent a lot of money for a record that she loves to give her and he never calls her a Phony. He is always calling the people that he doesn't like phonys. I think Phoebe likes Holden a lot and that is why she is so happy to see him. Also because she Missed him so much.
Phoebe loves him because he is her brother but she is very disappointed in him for getting kicked out of school again. She thinks that he isn't trying at all and just throwing his life away. She asked him if he flunked all of his classes because she knew that once he saw a bit of failure he would give up. I'm pretty sure that that is one of Holden's Main Problems because he is always giving up on things and not really giving things or people a chance. Phoebe wants Holden to try harder because she knows it will make their parents happy. I think that Phoebe is also a little jealous that Holden is always talking about Allie...... Still. When she asked him what one thing was that he liked, he said Allie. She was a little jealous because, I think that, she feels like Holden only cares about Allie and if he would just look and see Phoebe that is right in front of him, he could be happy.
Monday, May 11, 2009
Sunday, May 10, 2009
Sally... blah
Holden refers to Sally a lot. He went to a show with her and even, for a split second, considered getting married to her. That is a little bit crazy at his age, if you ask me, but oh well. He calls her when he's drunk and he thinks about her a lot. Even though he got in a huge fight with her on the date, he liked her a lot. It was weird how it started out with her being the most beautiful thing he's ever seen to a Royal pain in the ass.
I was a little disappointed to see that Sally was the first person that Holden actually confided in. I think that that night he was really getting depressed from the altercation with the prostitute and the hotel guy and all, that he needed to tell somebody what he's been keeping inside. She was completely unsupportive. But, for some reason, I can see where she's coming from. To her, things like phonys never crossed her mind. She never had anyone that we know of that she compares everyone in her life to to see if they're a good person. She, unlike Holden, does not have standards set that every new person she meets has to live up to. She doesn't understand why Holden is freaking out about his school and the people there. She never had a real problem with the people in her school so she cant really relate where this is coming from. This is all already a shock to her when Holden suddenly throws getting married out on the table. She is in no position to get married right now and she wants to let Holden know that they have their whole futures together to worry about things like that. Holden disagrees, he thinks that there is no point in school and that there is no reason for going to college just to get the job that pays enough money to buy a car you want. He thinks that there's more to being happy than just having the big house and the shiny new car that you just bought. They have entirely different views on how they want to live their lives... that is why they just don't get along too well.
I was a little disappointed to see that Sally was the first person that Holden actually confided in. I think that that night he was really getting depressed from the altercation with the prostitute and the hotel guy and all, that he needed to tell somebody what he's been keeping inside. She was completely unsupportive. But, for some reason, I can see where she's coming from. To her, things like phonys never crossed her mind. She never had anyone that we know of that she compares everyone in her life to to see if they're a good person. She, unlike Holden, does not have standards set that every new person she meets has to live up to. She doesn't understand why Holden is freaking out about his school and the people there. She never had a real problem with the people in her school so she cant really relate where this is coming from. This is all already a shock to her when Holden suddenly throws getting married out on the table. She is in no position to get married right now and she wants to let Holden know that they have their whole futures together to worry about things like that. Holden disagrees, he thinks that there is no point in school and that there is no reason for going to college just to get the job that pays enough money to buy a car you want. He thinks that there's more to being happy than just having the big house and the shiny new car that you just bought. They have entirely different views on how they want to live their lives... that is why they just don't get along too well.
Who Holden thinks of most
I think that Holden most refers to Allie. With everything he does and every decision he makes, Allie is always in the back of his head. I think that he mainly thinks of everyone as "phonys" because they are not the people like Allie was. He is very close minded though and i cant get the point across enough, that he needs to stop judging people first and just try to get to know them. Then, maybe, he'll see some traits that Allie had (his model for a good person) and know that they are someone that he could eventually be friends with.
He refers to Allie the most because he misses him. He misses him and he regrets things that happened while Allie was alive. He regrets not letting him tag along that day. We know this because he thinks about it all the time. He has dreams about it. He loved Allie and it was truly a life altering moment when he found out that Allie died. He was just so hurt because Allie was so young and he probably felt like he didn't have enough time with him. He was such a good person and how could that happen to such a good person? I think holden wishes it would have happend to a phony and not his brother Allie. That is a bad thought though, but Holden thinks like this all the time. He just needs to get over Allie and remember him for all the good that he did and what a great person that he was and stop morning.
He refers to Allie the most because he misses him. He misses him and he regrets things that happened while Allie was alive. He regrets not letting him tag along that day. We know this because he thinks about it all the time. He has dreams about it. He loved Allie and it was truly a life altering moment when he found out that Allie died. He was just so hurt because Allie was so young and he probably felt like he didn't have enough time with him. He was such a good person and how could that happen to such a good person? I think holden wishes it would have happend to a phony and not his brother Allie. That is a bad thought though, but Holden thinks like this all the time. He just needs to get over Allie and remember him for all the good that he did and what a great person that he was and stop morning.
Another thing about Holden and phonies..
When Holden talks to his sister, about all of the phonies at his school, I was really happy to see him finally opening up to someone other than the completely unsupporting character, Sally. Phoebe asks him why he did it, wondering why he didn't try hard and just let himself fail. He replied with, "Oh, God, Phoebe, don't ask me. I'm sick of everybody asking me that. A million reasons why. It was the one of the worst schools I ever went to. It was full of phonies. And mean guys. You never saw so many mean guys in your life. For instance, if you were having a bull session in somebody's room, and somebody wanted to come in, nobody'd let tehm in if they were some dopey, pimply guy. Everybody was always locking their door when somebody wanted to come in. And they had this goddam secret fraternity that I was too yellow not to join. There was this one pimply, boring guy, Robert Ackley, that wanted to get in. He kept trying to join, and they wouldn't let him. Just because he was boring and pimply. I dont't even feel like talking about it. It was a stinking school. Take my word."
First off, I'm pretty sure that Holden felt like talking about his old school if he already spilled that much about it. He was botteling so many things like that up inside that he was truly just dying to tell someone what he thought of all of it. I think that the whole "Phony" thing is about people not acting like who they truly are. People who are just materialistic and only care about whats cool and what other people think of them. I can see why holden says this about these people but if it were me, I probably wouldn't take it so hard. Maybe since he is around it soo much and he just couldn't get away, thats why hes freeking out right now. But i really think that the reason for him exploding with emotion in this point in the book is because he is finally finding people who he can actually confide in. Weather they give him advice or support him or not, he can just let someone know how he feels.
First off, I'm pretty sure that Holden felt like talking about his old school if he already spilled that much about it. He was botteling so many things like that up inside that he was truly just dying to tell someone what he thought of all of it. I think that the whole "Phony" thing is about people not acting like who they truly are. People who are just materialistic and only care about whats cool and what other people think of them. I can see why holden says this about these people but if it were me, I probably wouldn't take it so hard. Maybe since he is around it soo much and he just couldn't get away, thats why hes freeking out right now. But i really think that the reason for him exploding with emotion in this point in the book is because he is finally finding people who he can actually confide in. Weather they give him advice or support him or not, he can just let someone know how he feels.
Thursday, April 30, 2009
Reflecting on one important or insightful passage.
"I still had to get those damn theater tickets, so i bought a paper and looked up to see what shows were playing. On account of it was Sunday, there were only about three shows playing. So what I did was, I went over and bought two orchestra seats for I Know My Love, It was a benefit performance or something. I didn't much want to see it, but I knew old Sally, the queen of phonies, would start drooling all over the place when I told her I had tickets for that, because the Lunts were in it and all. She liked shows that are supposed to be very sophisticated and dry and all, with the Lunts and all. I don't. I don't like any shows very much, if you want to know the truth. They're not as bad as movies, but they're certainly nothing to rave about. In the first place, I hate actors. they never act like people. They just think they do. Some of the good ones do, in a very slight way, but now in a way that's fun to watch. And if any actor's really good, you can always tell he knows he's good, and that spoils it (Salinger- 116, 117)"
I think that it's weird that Holden would buy tickets to something that he absolutely dislikes. You'd think that maybe he would suggest going somewhere else like sitting at the park and talking because we notice his "hard-headedness" so much. But no, he buys the tickets for the show and he picks the one that he thinks that old Sally would like the most. It's sort of weird... but cute in a way. He cares about her, weather he will admit it or not. He goes on to say that that show is for people who are phony and they're phony because they like that sort of stuff but maybe, Holden only calls people phonies to keep a distance from people. I talked about this before, but Holden is so alone and it makes me wonder so much why he wouldn't just reach out to someone and be close with them. He is afraid that they will be taken away like Allie was but its been years and he needs to get over that.
Later on in the chapter, Holden repeatedly calls himself crazy because he was admitting his feelings for Sally. He is not crazy, he just likes her! He needs to realize that it's Okay to be close with someone and share your feelings. I am interested to read chapter the rest of chapter 17 and chapter 18 to see what happens between Holden and Sally.
I think that it's weird that Holden would buy tickets to something that he absolutely dislikes. You'd think that maybe he would suggest going somewhere else like sitting at the park and talking because we notice his "hard-headedness" so much. But no, he buys the tickets for the show and he picks the one that he thinks that old Sally would like the most. It's sort of weird... but cute in a way. He cares about her, weather he will admit it or not. He goes on to say that that show is for people who are phony and they're phony because they like that sort of stuff but maybe, Holden only calls people phonies to keep a distance from people. I talked about this before, but Holden is so alone and it makes me wonder so much why he wouldn't just reach out to someone and be close with them. He is afraid that they will be taken away like Allie was but its been years and he needs to get over that.
Later on in the chapter, Holden repeatedly calls himself crazy because he was admitting his feelings for Sally. He is not crazy, he just likes her! He needs to realize that it's Okay to be close with someone and share your feelings. I am interested to read chapter the rest of chapter 17 and chapter 18 to see what happens between Holden and Sally.
Who is Holden Caulfield?
Holden Caulfield REALLY confuses me. Sometimes I see the lonely side of him and it makes me sad that he doesn't really have anyone to confide in. Other times.... I see the jerk side in Holden that sort of turns me off of his character. I just think that Holden would be a lot better off if he stopped judging people. His method of meeting people and relationships with others starts with judging and then he gets to know what type of person they are, by their words and actions to him. I think that the studying on the book that I have been doing has really helped me to realize that Holden is not just some self absorbed jerk that mopes around and feels sorry for himself. He is really trying and that is what makes me like him. I can relate to him on some of his difficulties in life but i just don't really deal with it the way that Holden would. I think that he is just trying to figure out who he is and what hes all about. He needs to make some true friends to help him along the way because the people that you surround yourself with and do things with are a reflection of who you are as a person. Once Holden finds a true friend to help guide him, he will find out who he truly is. The hard thing is that to find a true friend, he will probably need to stop judging the book by its cover. :)
Childhood and Adulthood
Holden often acts childish in the ways that he deals with problems in his life. In chapter six, Holden, was so upset about Stradlater going out with his old friend, Jane Gallagher, that he tried to hit him. He was mad because Stradlater wouldn't tell him if he did anything with Jane. Holden just got so caught up in the situation, that he lashed out at Stradlater instead of just letting it go. He ended up getting his own self hurt even more. Growing up to be an adult requires the ability to be mature about things and with that, you need to be able to let go of things and just move on. Holden is sort of an adult in some moments of the book, like when he just shut his mouth about Ackley being gross and all and went to that movie with Ackley and Stradlater. He was acting like a child though when he wouldn't let it go that Stradlater went on a date with his old friend.
Sometimes its sad when we grow out of things in life and sometimes its for the best. We all know that we don't scream and jump up and down in the living room Christmas morning from receiving a gift of a sled from Santa anymore...most people don't even get gifts from "Santa." Sometimes looking back on the old home movies it is sad. But then, you realize, you see that video of you and your sibling fighting like crazy over a stupid little plastic toy cookie from your mini kitchen set and one hits the other and then the other one cries. Those things are good to grow out of, we are more mature now as in dealing with someone stealing the toy cookie and crying about it.
I think that Holden needs to realize when he is acting like a Child and grow up sometimes. Like in the situation with Stradlater. There are other times, later in the book that shows you Holden still needs to get the hang of growing up. I guess we'll see what happens..
Sometimes its sad when we grow out of things in life and sometimes its for the best. We all know that we don't scream and jump up and down in the living room Christmas morning from receiving a gift of a sled from Santa anymore...most people don't even get gifts from "Santa." Sometimes looking back on the old home movies it is sad. But then, you realize, you see that video of you and your sibling fighting like crazy over a stupid little plastic toy cookie from your mini kitchen set and one hits the other and then the other one cries. Those things are good to grow out of, we are more mature now as in dealing with someone stealing the toy cookie and crying about it.
I think that Holden needs to realize when he is acting like a Child and grow up sometimes. Like in the situation with Stradlater. There are other times, later in the book that shows you Holden still needs to get the hang of growing up. I guess we'll see what happens..
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